The following is the transcript of the interview with Ty Cobb, who served as White House Special Counsel during President Trump’s first term, that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on Sept. 28, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’re joined now by Ty Cobb. He served as White House Special Counsel for just under a year during the first Trump administration, helping to coordinate the response to Robert Mueller’s probe of Russian influence on the 2016 election. Good morning to you.
FORMER WHITE HOUSE SPECIAL COUNSEL TO THE PRESIDENT TY COBB: Good morning, Margaret. Thanks for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we saw this action against former FBI Director James Comey this past week, and he was indicted on two charges specific to his September 2020 testimony to Congress about Russian election meddling in 2016, so-called Crossfire Hurricane. In your view, from what you’ve heard of this case, do you think it has enough substance to actually head to trial?
COBB: I don’t, really. You know, as you and Senator Kaine discussed briefly, moments ago, that the grand jury rejected one of the counts, the top count, actually, in the indictment, approved two, but by a very slim margin, 14 out of 23 in a process where there’s no defense attorney in the room, and the standard is merely probable cause. The next courtroom that this will be assessed in, if it gets to trial, requires unanimity from 12 people, and there will be a vigorous defense. I don’t see any way in the world that, you know, Comey will be convicted. And I think there’s a good chance, because of, you know, the wholly unconstitutional, authoritarian way that this was done, that the case may get tossed out well before trial.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Wholly unconstitutional and authoritarian. That’s- that’s quite a description. You used to work for President Trump. What makes you now characterized his actions that way?
COBB: I used to work- well, I used to work at the White House as as a lawyer, you know, interacting with the Justice Department in the Mueller investigation and other matters, and I was not Trump’s personal lawyer. So, my role was really, you know, as a- as a government employee, and not personal to the- to the president. He did have personal lawyers, but, you know, at the time, you know, I was trying to perform the duties that were assigned to me. In this- in this circumstance, you know, I’m eight years removed from that. I don’t- I don’t have any allegiances or reasons to, you know, say anything other than balls and strikes. And former Attorney General Jackson, Justice Jackson, Nuremberg Prosecutor, himself, highlighted in 1940 that the most important thing at the Justice Department when he was Attorney General was that people not target individuals, that they merely pursue crimes. Griffin Bell, years later, 1978 said essentially the same thing. Emphasized how political- politics and favor have no business at the Justice Department. It’s all about even-handedness. And I think we talked about the misrepresentations that Attorney General Bondi made about how she would proceed even-handedly, and, you know, she’s wholly abandoned that and is now merely doing the President’s bidding when he says, prosecute my enemies, now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah. Well, the New York Times is reporting that half a dozen US Attorney’s Offices have been ordered to draft plans to investigate a group funded by George Soros, who is a democratic donor. You look at that, you look at the list of names of others who the President has said he specifically wants to be prosecuted or investigated. I’ll read a few of them to you: Two former Trump officials, Chris Krebs and Miles Taylor. He also said he wants a federal investigation into former Special Counsel Jack Smith, the DOJ fired the 35 lawyers who were involved in the January 6th and classified documents cases. The Justice Department is now going after Fulton County DA Fani Willis’ travel records. We have quite an exhaustive list here. What is the pattern you see?
COBB: Well, I think if you go to 30,000 feet, what you see is a lot of moving parts, but simple themes. The simple themes are rewriting history. Trump wants to rewrite history so that, you know, the next generation may not know that he incited a violent insurrection, refused to peacefully transfer the power of the presidency after losing an election, stole classified documents and showed them to friends and- and guests at Mar-a-Lago, you know, and that he was a criminal. I mean, he’s a convicted felon. All- all anybody involved in those events that offended him, they’re- they’re in real danger. So, you have the rewriting history stuff. You know, the US attorney that he appointed, his personal lawyer, Lindsay Halligan. You know her, her role previously in the administration was, you know, trying to eliminate the theory that, you know, America had slaves at the Smithsonian. She was there to, you know, whitewash the- the Smithsonian and paint America- paint America is something that- that it isn’t. I mean, America needs to learn from the mistakes and lessons that we’ve had, and one of the biggest mistakes that- that America ever had was re-electing President Trump.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, a number of Republican lawmakers are declining to speak out and are leaving the door open that these cases are legitimate. Do you think that the judicial system can resist what you are saying here as just simply politically motivated pressure?
COBB: I think that’s an excellent question. I think, you know, the founders, when they- when they drafted the Constitution, Article One is to Congress, and Congress has the greatest powers under the Constitution; spending power, war power, impeachment. Congress is really there to check the presidency. Congress has been neutered by the cowardice of the Republicans. Mike Johnson won’t even seat recently elected representative Grijalva because he doesn’t want her to tip the balance on the- on the Epstein vote. Congress is totally in the tank and —
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sorry, I’m gonna have to cut you off. I’m sorry, because we’re out of time there. Ty Cobb, thank you for your time. We’ll be right back.
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