‘Phillies Karen’ incident raises legal and sports etiquette questions. Here’s what experts say

It’s been a year for viral stadium camera moments. First, a kiss cam scandal at a Coldplay concert led to a CEO’s resignation and divorce filings. Last week, a woman who took a home run ball from a boy at a Phillies game has been dubbed “Phillies Karen” as internet sleuths pursue her identity and hurl insults.

But is it possible that the woman had the right to the home run ball? Whose ball is it, anyway? We talked to experts to find out.

First, a primer on the incident: At a Sept. 5 Phillies/Marlins game in Florida, Harrison Bader hit a home run into unoccupied left field seats. A small scrabble for the ball ensued, and a man who had walked over from another section came up with it. He returned to his seat, quickly gave it to his son and hugged him.

A moment later, a confrontational woman appeared, demanding the ball. After a brief argument, the man gave the woman the ball and waved her off.

The boy eventually got a swag package from the Marlins and a signed bat from Harrison Bader, but he was still left without the ball his father pulled.

Every baseball expert, legal expert and fan interviewed by PennLive spoke agreed — the ball should’ve stayed in the boy’s glove. But why?

The legal question is possession

This very issue has been litigated in court and in a 2002 case, the judge determined that a person who retains control of the ball after initial contact has possession and is entitled to the ball.

Louis Schiff, a retired judge, attorney, professor and author told PennLive that’s how sees the case involving the Phillies.

“Possession belonged to the man who picked it up, absolutely,” said Louis Schiff. “If that case came before me, I might rule in his favor depending on what the facts show.”

Schiff is an avid baseball fan and historian. He’s written two books merging his legal and baseball interests, “Baseball and the Law: Cases and Materials” and “Attorneys in the Baseball Hall of Fame.” He’s also a member of the Society for American Baseball Research (SABR).

His legal analysis is short and sweet. The ball belonged to the boy based on three criteria:

• Did the woman have clear possession? (No)
• Did someone physically take the ball from her? (No)
• Did she hold the ball for a sufficient amount of time that would indicate the ball was hers? (No)

“The video evidence I have seen shows that the ball at best may have touched her [Phillies Karen], but just because it touches you doesn’t mean it’s your ball,” Schiff said.

There is a guest code of conduct for all Major League Baseball (MLB) stadiums that’s enforced, but there aren’t any written rules specifically about baseballs caught by fans.

Some stadiums have restricted areas for safety reasons, but there’s no restriction on running across a section to grab a ball.

PennLive spoke with a variety of ballpark employees across multiple levels. On the local level, representatives for the Lancaster Stormers and the York Revolution said their adult fans typically give balls they catch or grab to nearby children, but there’s no rule around it.

Mike Reynolds, the Lancaster Stormers General Manager, said he’s never seen an incident like the Phillies Karen in the Stormers’ ballpark.

On the professional level, that incident is only the most recent in a series of disputes over baseballs and memorabilia, including a Polish CEO who went viral for taking a hat from a child at the U.S. Open after a pro player tried to give it to the kid.

The unwritten rules

Baseball fan etiquette, like many social norms, is set by a series of unwritten rules agreed upon by attendees. Based on PennLive interviews with experts, here are four such rules.

Rule #1: If you catch a ball, give it to a kid.

“There’s always a kid,” Schiff said. “You don’t keep the ball, the idea is always that you give it to a kid.”

Other baseball fanatics agreed.

“As a baseball guy for 40 plus years, you do not take a ball away from a kid,” Steve Zawisky, an Atlantic League baseball umpire said. “As an umpire, you will have used baseballs and every time you walk off the field, people are asking for baseballs at the professional level. If I see a kid, it’s a nice gesture, their eyes light up, it’s meaningful. But when adults ask, it’s a bit annoying. I mean, it’s a used baseball.”

One fan said it’s not necessarily even a baseball rule, but a “good person” rule.

Rule #2: If the ball is a player’s first home run, give it to the player.

“There’s a tradition of a fan going to the player and exchanging the ball for a souvenir,” Schiff said. “It may be his only home run.”

Rule #3: You can leave your seat as long as you don’t knock people over doing it.

The man in the video had a clear run across the empty aisle and didn’t shove people out of the way, although that does happen.

“I’ve been pushed aside and I kind of give the guy a dirty look, like, ‘Really?’” Schiff said.

Zawisky had a slightly different outlook.

“The guy in the video did move a decent distance to get the ball, I think that was kind of ignored here. But then again, his row was empty,” he said. “My thought is if you have to move a substantial amount, maybe you should let someone else get it?”

Rule #4: People who sit in the outfield are generally trying to catch a ball.

“It’s different than football, basketball or soccer, where people give the ball back,” Schiff said. “Baseball is the sport where people love to catch foul balls and home run balls. People choose their seats based on what they can catch.”

Schiff pointed out in the Home Run Derby and the All Star game, the most expensive seats aren’t behind home plate, but in the outfield.

So what happens if you defy the unwritten rules, like Phillies Karen? In today’s age, people are tried and sentenced through social media.

The court of public opinion

The multiple video angles being shared on social media of Phillies Karen doesn’t help her case at all. Schiff provided his legal and historical analysis, but kept any judgments to himself.

“There are so many things on the internet right now poking fun at that woman,” Schiff said. “I’m not here to poke fun at anyone.”

Social media users in general haven’t taken the same approach.

AI memes, like them or not, play a role: A fake Spirit of Halloween costume, complete with a blonde wig and a video that shows the woman’s face transforming into Gollum from Lord of the Rings (my precioussss) took X by storm.

The Savannah Bananas also parodied the incident.

Most of the tweets use explicit language to describe the woman, with hundreds of people pouring vitriol on her.

Internet sleuths have even tried to find the woman, wrongly identifying two women as the Phillies Karen. She hasn’t yet been publicly identified, but the dad who lost the baseball has been asking the public to lay off of her.

“The internet already messed her up pretty good,” Drew Feltwell told USA Today.

It’s not the first time people have been in an uproar over a ball hit into the stands. Plenty of historical context led us to where we are today.

The history of baseball scuffles

Since baseball began, balls have been hit into the stands. It’s the nature of the game. And it’s the nature of humanity to find conflict in the little things.

“In the early 1900s, fans were expected, when they caught a baseball, to give it back,” Schiff said. “It got to the point where not only did the fans not give it back, but they started arresting fans who kept balls.”

A 1907 New York Times article titled “Must Not Keep Balls” tells the story of a man who “tried to pocket a ball batted into the stand” at a New York Giants game and was ejected from the grounds by “Pinkerton men,” and nearly arrested.

At the time, baseballs were expensive to manufacture, Schiff said. In his book “Baseball and the Law: Cases and Materials,” Schiff says a baseball in 1915 cost $83 adjusted for inflation, but official MLB baseballs cost around $20 today.

The rule was standard across baseball stadiums until Reuben Berman, a 31-year-old stockbroker, came along. In a May 1921 Giants game, Berman caught a foul ball and either tossed it or gave it away.

“The ball basically disappeared,” Schiff said. “The Giants didn’t think this was funny.”

They interrogated Berman and threatened him with arrest. Three months later, he filed a lawsuit seeking $20,000 for humiliation, suffering mental and bodily distress and loss of reputation. After a trial, he was awarded $100.

The case led to a change in policy for the Giants and other stadiums soon followed. A detailed explanation of the incident is on the SABR website.

In 1934, a fan grabbed a ball and was beaten by ushers. The fan sued and won $7,500, Schiff said.

By this point, the league essentially gave up and fans were allowed to keep the balls. It was a win for the fans.

“Teams kind of just gave up on enforcing it,” Schiff said.

World War II changed that. At the time, there were only 16 teams centered on the east coast. The teams decided to ask fans to voluntarily give balls back so the balls could be shipped overseas to soldiers, who played baseball during recreation time.

“Fans felt a patriotic interest in giving the balls back,” Schiff said. “The cynical me says that baseball managers could’ve shipped balls over themselves.”

After the war, fans started to keep baseballs again. In 1961, 19-year-old Sal Durante caught Roger Maris’ 61st home run, a number that broke Babe Ruth’s single-season homer record. The fan offered to give it to Maris, who told him to keep it and put it up for auction. Durante got $5,000 for the ball.

The feel-good baseball stories wouldn’t last. The court case that applies best to the recent kerfuffle at the Phillies game is 2002’s Popov v. Hayashi, a scrap between two fans over Barry Bond’s 73rd home run of the season, also a new record.

The dispute centered on possession. Eventually, the judge ordered the fans to sell the ball and split the proceeds.

“By the time they split the costs, it was lower than what they accumulated. People lost interest in the ball because it was kind of a tainted ball,” Schiff said.

In 2009, Ryan Howard hit his 200th career home run. A 12-year-old girl caught it. The Phillies approached her and traded it for a signed ball. Her attorney sued, saying the team couldn’t enter into a contract with a person under 18 and that the girl was coerced to give it back. The Phillies gave the ball back because the girl had possession.

Watch any baseball game and you’ll probably see brief scuffles for balls batted into the stands, either from your TV or on the Jumbotron at the field.

Just remember, if it’s coming towards you, catch it, establish possession, then give it to the nearest kid.