Barack Obama had harsh words for businesses and universities that have caved to Donald Trump and the policies “cooked up” by Stephen Miller.
Speaking on the final episode of comedian Marc Maron’s WTF podcast, the former president said that institutions must be willing to endure “a little discomfort” in order to stand up to the Trump administration’s strong-arm tactics.
“If you’re a university president, say, ‘Well, you know what, this’ll hurt if we lose some grant money from the federal government, but that’s what endowments are for. Let’s see if we can ride this out,’” Obama said. “Because what we’re not going to do is compromise our basic academic independence.
“If you’re a business, you say, ‘You know what? We think it’s important, because of what this country stands for, to hire people from different backgrounds. We’re not gonna be bullied into saying that we can only hire or promote people based on some criteria that’s been cooked up by Steve Miller.’”
Miller, the White House deputy chief of staff, is the architect of some of Trump’s most hardline immigration policies. He has also been leading a crusade against diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) initiatives that have been implemented across corporate America over the last five years.
Since Trump’s 2024 election victory, several major companies have announced plans to roll back their DEI commitments after being accused of “unlawful” and discriminatory practices by America First Legal, a group led by Miller. These include retail giants Target and Walmart—the largest private employer in the U.S.
The White House is also pressuring nine universities to adopt Trump’s political agenda in exchange for continued access to federal funding. The demands reportedly include halting consideration of race and other demographics in admissions, aligning with the government’s definition of gender, and banning transgender women from competing on women’s sports teams.
On Friday, MIT President Sally Kornbluth wrote a letter to the Trump administration stating that MIT would refuse the demands and encouraged the other eight targeted universities to do the same.
Election officials in Tucson—home to the University of Arizona, another school on Trump’s list—called the move “an unacceptable act of federal interference.”
Trump has also clashed with Harvard, the nation’s oldest and arguably most prestigious university, reportedly attempting to freeze more than $2 billion in federal grants after the Ivy League institution defied government orders to restrict student activism and eliminate DEI programs.
Elsewhere in his WTF interview, Obama said that standing up to the administration represents a significant “test” for progressives and Trump supporters as the president’s policies grow more hardline.
“We were so accustomed to things kind of getting better consistently over our lifetimes—a little less racist, a little less sexist, less homophobic, a little more generous—that it was easy, I think, to say, ‘Well, yeah, I’m a progressive.’ But it didn’t really cost us anything. We could take positions on things we thought were correct, but they were never really tested,” Obama said. “Well, here’s the test.”
“If you are a Hispanic man and you’re frustrated about inflation so you decide, ‘Eh, you know what? All that rhetoric about Trump doesn’t matter, I’m just mad about inflation.’ Now your sons are being stopped in L.A. because they look Latino, might just be locked up—well, that’s a test.”
The Daily Beast has contacted the White House for comment.
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