Why Chloé Zhao Returned With ‘Hamnet’ After a 4-Year Hiatus

“I can never quite pinpoint why I choose stories,” muses Chloé Zhao. “I think they choose me.”

It’s late August and the Chinese director — renowned for her Oscar-winning Nomadland (2020) with Frances McDormand — is talking to The Hollywood Reporter over Zoom about re-entering the film world with an adaptation of Maggie O’Farrell’s novel Hamnet.

On Sept. 7, the movie had its world premiere at Toronto International Film Festival (TIFF) where Zhao, also helmer of the MCU’s Eternals (2021) presented the film alongside the young, white-hot talents Paul Mescal and Jessie Buckley to rave reviews.

Hamnet, co-written by Zhao and O’Farrell, follows a fictional story of love and loss. It centers on the life of William Shakespeare (Mescal) and his wife Agnes (Buckley) after the death of their 11-year-old son, Hamnet. It births the English playwright’s celebrated tragedy Hamlet, a work Zhao describes as “one of the greatest pieces of literature in the world.”

“I never really understood [Hamlet],” she confesses. “The story is very dark. It’s very dense. It talks a lot about the very difficult human experiences this young person went through in a short amount of time, and then he dies in the end. … I never really understood it the way I did when I read Maggie’s novel. When I read the novel, I thought, ‘Oh, wow.’ I just looked at Hamnet completely different.”

Instinctively, the creative wanted to decline to make the movie, also produced by Steven Spielberg for Amblin Entertainment and Sam Mendes, alongside Zhao and production partner Nic Gonda’s Book of Shadows. “I didn’t think I had the life experience to tell the story,” she tells THR.

But then she met Mescal, just before he earned his first Academy Award nomination for the cult hit Aftersun (2022). “I felt like if he plays young Shakespeare, maybe [this is] something I could do.” When British star Buckley signed on, it was all systems go. “The chemistry test was … sparks everywhere,” giggles Zhao.

Below, before TIFF, Zhao explains her four-year break from feature film after needing time to “decompress” in the wake of Nomadland and Eternals. She gets philosophical about Hamnet, also featuring Joe Alwyn and Emily Watson with a Max Richter score, and learning to love her project’s “imperfections” as though she is raising a child: “This time, I made sure every step of the way I reminded myself: This is the best I can do.”

This is your first feature film since Eternals. Are you comfortable talking about the decision to take a four-year break and why Hamnet felt like the right project to return with?

That’s a really good question. I don’t think anyone’s asked me that … I needed a break after Eternals and Nomadland because these two films were very intense. (Laughs.) [They were] back-to-back, making them and coming out. So I think it was the accumulation of a decade of me working non-stop … And I’ve changed a lot as a person. I really wanted to have a period where I get to just decompress — because that takes time — instead of jumping onto the next thing. I’m always guided by what comes from inside [me] instead of what’s external. And it took about four years to do! But I also started a company with my producing partner, Nic [Book of Shadows]. So we’re doing quite a lot of producing, which is really exciting.

Hamnet, I can never quite pinpoint why I choose stories. I think they choose me. This decompressing period changed the ecosystem a lot of what’s going on [inside me]. I think the project chose me because I was ready to be the fertile ground for it.

Do you remember the first time you saw Hamlet, the play?

I don’t think I’ve seen Hamlet on stage before, [apart from] school! I’ve seen the film, the original black and white one [with Laurence Olivier]. And then, I think, the one with Ethan Hawke. It was a long time ago. I remember Ethan Hawke’s face on the poster.

I’ve seen both of these, but never really understood it. The story is very dark. It’s very dense. It talks a lot about the very difficult human experiences this young person went through in a short amount of time, and then he dies in the end. I saw these films in my 20s, so I don’t think I understood it. I read the play before. I never really understood it the way I did when I read Maggie’s novel. When I read the novel, I thought, “Oh, wow.” I just looked at Hamnet completely different. Then making this film, I used Hamlet as a very sacred container and in our version of the story, [we] know where that inspiration comes from — the two fundamental human conditions, love and death. That’s how, in our story, [Shakespeare] birthed Hamlet. So to make a film like this, you have to also dive into these two emotions very strongly. One is little bit easier than the other — not for everyone, for some people, love is very difficult — so I’d say I’ve seen Hamlet before, but [I’ve] never [felt] the way I feel about that play [as I do] right now.

What are you able to tell us about this movie and about its expedition into love and loss? What lies ahead for Shakespeare and Agnes?

If I were to get a bit philosophical about this — because you can always find a tagline [elsewhere] — I see it as a story of two people who look at the world very differently, even though the undercurrent is deeply connected. It represents the energy, I think, not only externally, but within all of us. One is deeply connected to nature, still and expressive, emotive, sensitive, intuitive. The other one is connected to civilization and is about constantly running away, going to places. [They’re] not emotive, [they are] repressed, but hard and strong and hold space. [They] put their own feelings down so others can be expressive, right?

So one is about being and one is about doing. One is about staying [and] one is about leaving. And I think these two energies coexist in nature: one’s love, one is death in some way, right? They coexist because nature needs that cycle, but it’s extremely painful when you have two people who fell in love and even though they’re connected on the soul level, the way they grieve, the way they see what a family structure is like, the way they understand what oxygen is for them … it’s very different. Sometimes the love cannot survive that difference. When they get together, they really complete each other and inspire each other; they have exactly what each other doesn’t have. However, when something as big as losing a child happens, the way they grieve … they’re both standing at this threshold. [They] can’t go back and can’t move forward. Their love isn’t strong enough in that moment. They can’t see each other for who they are and how they grieve. For Agnes, she can’t quite understand why Will can’t grieve the way she does. For him, he cannot be there for her and that made their relationship separate. His inability to express himself, in some ways, is tragic and painful, but at the same time, it will push him to the edge of the threshold: to be or not to be and therefore birth one of the greatest pieces of literature in the world.

As a result, he gets to express himself through that story. That’s where he feels safe to express himself and that allowed her to understand his language of grief and therefore burns her heart open. [She can] feel his love for their child and her. They’re not suddenly back together and everything is fine, but these two people [are] brought together by his work [and] there is a moment of seeing and being seen by each other. And that, in some ways, is all we ask.

So eloquently put. I’d love to know more about the casting process and what drew you to Paul and Jessie. Did you have them in mind?

Well, first of all, they represent these two energies I was telling you about so well. I love searching for actors who already have the essence of the characters in themselves — beyond the great talent. But I actually wasn’t sure. I didn’t read the book when I heard about the project. … Amblin called me about it. I was actually on my way to the Telluride Film Festival when I got that call. And my initial instinct was “no,” because I didn’t think I had the life experience to tell the story. So I got to Telluride and someone said, “Hey, we have a meeting for you with this actor named Paul Mescal.” I didn’t know his work at the time because Aftersun hadn’t come out yet! (Laughs.) And within a very short amount of time, I felt like if he plays young Shakespeare, maybe [this is] something I could do. Then, obviously, I met Jessie, but I knew her work so I’ve always felt she’s tapped into something fewer would dare to go, you know? A place that I think it takes a really brave heart to get to. So as soon as I read the book, I knew right away [Agnes] is Jessie, there’s no question. So the casting process was very easy.

And we had to test their chemistry, which is the most important thing. And the chemistry test was … sparks everywhere.

You mention Amblin and of course this was produced by Steven Spielberg and Sam Mendes, too, two amazing filmmakers in their own right. What was that relationship like, was it more hands-off as they trusted you to do your own thing?

I think it’s the kind of relationship you have with any student who has a very profound relationship with a great teacher. It’s not that different when you respect their work. So when they give you notes and suggestions, not only are you more receptive to them, but also they give it in the way that they understand my work and my process. They’ve tailored them so it makes sense to me, and I can tell, because we’re very different artists, and there must be other notes they have but they don’t give me those, which was really great. Sometimes, I do things very unconventionally. This is a quite decent-sized production, and a lot of times it does take them to say, “You know what? Let’s trust her,” for everyone to feel calmer. So it’s been incredible to have them in my corner.

After the break you’ve taken, do you feel nervous about getting this film out into the world, or is it just excitement? What will you be thinking while in Toronto?

I think it’s like when you have a child. You do whatever you can to raise them, and you probably made mistakes along the way, [things] that you wish you’d done better — I’m speaking for the last two films I had that came out the same time [Nomadland and Eternals] — then you send them out into the world, and the world will have very unexpected reactions towards them that you have no control of. You have to learn to love the imperfection of your children, because that is loving the imperfection in yourself. And that wasn’t an easy process for me last time. So [in] four years, [I did] a lot of work on that.

Starting with Hamnet, I have always said to everyone involved, Paul, Jessie, everyone, all the producers, Focus [Features]: I would love this experience to be the kind of raising a child experience that is so heart-opening, [with] no fear. So that when the child is ready to go out in the world, I have no regrets, because I did the best I could. I think that is true in the past as well, but this time, I made sure every step of the way I reminded myself: This is the best I can do. And then, I love you. Off you go. Still, the nerves are gonna be all over the place, because I’m very sensitive. (Laughs.) But I think I’m ready. I have a great team around me.

These festivals are such champions of indie filmmaking. But even something as big as Hamnet with you, Paul, Jessie attached benefit too. How important are they in this industry?

If I could, I would have all my films start at a festival. I wouldn’t be here without film festivals and [the same goes for] so many of my colleagues. The passion you get and the interactions you get from the community at a film festival … it’s not just good for your soul, but a lot of relationships build from these fertile grounds the festival organizer works so tirelessly to put together. The atmosphere, everything, you go in there and feel you’re in a bubble. You get to sort of go back to school. You meet each other in a very different energy and that’s how I met Paul and Jessie. Creativity started to burst out. And then you get to leave school and go back into the world that is just a little harsher. It truly is a garden that we get to go back to and reclaim a sense of innocence.

Lastly, what else are you working on right now? It won’t be another four-year break, will it?!

Well, I don’t think it’s a secret [to say] that I am working on Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Are you allowed to tell us anything about Buffy?

It’s going well. (Laughs.)

Chloé Zhao’s Hamnet releases in U.S. theaters via Focus Features on Nov. 27. Universal is handling international distribution.