Ethan Coen and Tricia Cooke Break Down ‘Honey, Don’t’s Bogart Influence and Being “Out of Sync” With Joel

The benefits of a good night’s sleep can work wonders — especially on an Oscar-winning director like Ethan Coen, who had given up on making movies. And yet he changed his mind after a good night’s sleep. Okay, it’s a little more complicated than that, but listening to both Coen and his longtime co-writer and editor (and wife), Tricia Cooke … it might not be that much more complicated.

As they say ahead, what Coen’s momentary retirement did do was throw his schedule with his brother Joel Coen a bit out of whack, which has led to both of them directing separately, at least for the time being. According to Coen, there was never any specific conversation between him and his brother about directing separately. That’s just kind of the way it all worked out.

The latest Coen and Cooke collaboration, Honey Don’t, is something of a spiritual sequel in tone to 2024’s Drive-Away Dolls. But this time, the project leans heavily into the hardboiled detective genre — like Bogart in The Big Sleep – and Cooke admits they practically “stole” from Robert Altman’s The Long Goodbye – as Margaret Qualley’s Honey O’Donahue investigates a murder, with the help of a police officer, MG Falcone (Aubrey Plaza), that leads them to a sleazy reverend, played by Chris Evans who is very much “going for it.”

There’s an endearing nonchalantness when speaking to Coen and Cooke that, in my experience, leads to … well, a lot of paths and references to movies that one might not expect to hear during an interview. Which also makes talking to them both incredibly entertaining and a bit of a challenge when they reference a movie I haven’t seen. So, this time, I came prepared.

Joel Coen Thought He Was Done Making Movies, but He’s All Better Now

Last time we spoke, for Drive-Away Dolls, you told me I should watch The Catered Affair.

Coen: And?

We were talking about the influences on Drive-Away Dolls, so I expected something crazy. It’s about Ernest Borgnine wanting to buy a taxi medallion, but he can’t get it because Bette Davis wants to throw her daughter a big wedding.

Coen: Oh god, that’s a great pitch! I find that compelling, even having seen the movie. Didn’t you like it? Ernest Borgnine is great!

I did like it. It just wasn’t what I was expecting.

Cooke: Were you trying to connect this to Drive-Away Dolls?

Coen: Was I? How did this come up?

For some reason, we jumped from Charlie Varrick to one of Kris Kristofferson’s first films…

Coen: Cisco Pike?

Yes. Then, after that, you told me to watch The Catered Affair.

Coen: Yeah, that’s a hard segue.

Richard Brooks, not everyone can direct movies as different as The Catered Affair and Looking for Mr. Goodbar.

Coen: Who did In Cold Blood? Was that Richard Brooks?

Yes. And he did Blackboard Jungle.

Coen: Yeah, it’s a weird career.

Cooke: All good movies!

Ethan had once said he didn’t enjoy making movies anymore. When I brought this up before, you compared yourself to Blair in The Thing, saying, “I’m all better now.”

Coen: [Laughing] Oh, it’s what’s his face, with the mustache!

Wilford Brimley.

Coen: Wilford Brimley, yeah.

So, not in a Wilford Brimley in The Thing way, but I’d say your last two movies couldn’t be made by someone who is not enjoying making movies.

Coen: Well, I’m glad it comes off that way. It feels that way. We had a ball. Everyone says that after a movie, but it’s really true.

Cooke: Aubrey and Chris and Margaret, they were just gung ho. They wanted to do it all.

Margaret Qualley in ‘Honey, Don’t!’ Is all Humphrey Bogart

This is a weird comparison, but Margaret has a pacing to her lines that reminds me of Leslie Nielsen as Frank Drebin.

Coen: Yes, hardboiled. I don’t want to say it writes itself, but it’s all Bogie. It’s all Humphrey Bogart.

Which one?

Coen: Oh god, all of them. The Big Sleep, that’s the staple of hardboiled fiction.

Cooke: And she’s really good at delivering it. She’s kind of the straight man, but understanding the humor.

Coen: We told her she’s playing Bogie, and she said, “Yeah, far out.”

A few years ago, I went on a Bogart marathon. I had seen Treasure of the Sierra Madre…

Coen: I might argue with you. I would kind of say Treasure of the Sierra Madre is his worst performance, but whatever.

Really?

Coen: Yeah.

Why do you feel that way? All he wants is a hot meal.

Coen: I felt it was a little big in a way he never was when he’s playing a tough guy. But, whatever! He’s Bogie. We’ll let him do anything.

Well, when he gets wind of this, he’s not going to be happy.

Coen: We got to meet Lauren Bacall, and she told us a couple of funny stories. They were like, god, what a great pair. Margaret, there’s also some Lauren Bacall in what she’s doing.

Ethan Coen Explains Why He and Joel Coen Are Directing Separately Now

That probably makes more sense than Leslie Nielsen.

Cooke: [Laughs] But Margaret would be flattered! Have you seen the new Naked Gun?

Yes. Have you?

Cooke: No. How is it?

It’s incredible. It has the spirit of a ZAZ Naked Gun movie. Though I realize David Zucker directed Naked Gun on his own. Actually, this reminds me, I spoke to Jerry Zucker for the anniversary of Ghost. He said a reason he and David stopped directing together was, after Ruthless People, David and Jim Abrahams wanted to go back to spoofs, and Jerry didn’t. Was this difference in focus at all similar to why you and Joel started directing separately, at least for now?

Coen: Oh, no. Neither of us knew what the other would be doing or not. After the last movie we made together, The Ballad of Buster Scruggs, I was like, “I can’t do another one. This is too hard. I’m out.” And Joel went on to do Macbeth. And then COVID happened, and we were locked down — me and Tricia — and we had the opportunity to do this documentary with all archival footage – and that was kind of great. So I kind of got interested again, and we have these scripts, but Joel was working on his thing, so we kind of got out of sync. Now, there was never a decision by the two of us to do movies separately.

Cooke: Creatively. I think it was more of a physical exhaustion for you.

Coen: It wasn’t even that. I can’t even describe it without sounding self-pitying and stupid. Like, I need a break or have to recharge or whatever. It’s all bullshit. You get a good night’s sleep, and you’re recharged.

So for any director out there thinking he or she might be done making movies, just get a good night’s sleep, and you might change your mind.

Coen: Yeah! I don’t know what to tell you, but it worked for me.

‘Honey, Don’t!’ Was Inspired by the Films of Robert Altman and John Huston

Other than Bogie, is there a specific influence on Honey Don’t! we haven’t mentioned yet?

Coen: Okay, I’ll tell you, and this might be an unexpected one, so maybe it’s interesting? The ‘70s John Huston movie, Fat City. Which is kind of bare ass, working class, or lower, California, in kind of the same way ours is. It’s about non-glamorous California.

Cooke: And it definitely influenced the title sequence, Fat City. And Margaret searching for her niece, tonally, we wanted that to feel like Fat City. But the more obvious one is The Long Goodbye. And the bar scene, speaking of Ghost, that’s Patrick Swayze’s brother as the bartender in the bar scene. Isn’t that great? We downright stole from The Long Goodbye, pretty much.

Speaking of Altman, do you remember Health?

Coen: I didn’t see it.

No one did. It’s basically the style of Nashville, only set at a health convention, starring James Garner. I’ve been watching his deep cuts.

Cooke: Did you watch Come Back to the Five and Dime, Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean?

Oh yeah, I did.

Cooke: Great movie.

He made a lot of movies.

Coen: Oh my god, he really did. He lined them up and knocked them back. I watched California Split again several months ago.

Big fan.

Coen: Oh my god, it’s great. And, you know, some of those people I didn’t appreciate enough at the time. George Segal, there’s something great about him. And Elliott Gould … he’s kind of great.

Cooke: And he’s amazing in The Long Goodbye.

So, reading some recent interviews with the two of you, it seems very vague what your next plans are. Go Beavers is a possibility. There’s “an old thing you wrote with Joel.” Or a still untitled horror film with Joel. So you actually don’t know?

Coen: Why would we lie?

Well, if you just don’t want people to know.

Coen: Oh, no, we’re not sophisticated enough for that. Yeah, we don’t know. There’s something I’ve written. There’s that thing I wrote with Joel. There are two things I’m kind of in the middle of writing with Tricia. It makes me sound really industrious.

Cooke: Well, you do work all the time. Yeah, we wrote an animated movie with our daughter.

Coen: We have this thing, we have to do it at some point, this thing with Margaret and Aubrey again.

Cooke: Yeah, that we’ve kind of been fooling around with, Cry Vulgar.

I am curious if there’s a movie IP that’s out there that you’ve always wanted to do. And not a remake like True Grit. But kind of like how Tarantino wanted to make a Star Trek. Or even how Scorsese made a sequel with The Color of Money.

Coen: Yeah… no. There isn’t anything that me and Joel, or me and Tricia have thought about. We did do one we had a weird relationship to, The Ladykillers. An Alec Guinness movie I thought was pretty funny, and we got hired to write a script for it for somebody else, and somebody else didn’t end up doing it. So that’s an example of that. But no, nothing we are thinking about.